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Kerkythea Rendering System • View topic - Simplicity
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Simplicity

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<<

Visvambhara

Posts: 16

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Location: Durban, South Africa

Post Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:01 pm

Simplicity

Hi, everyone

I am very, very new to Kerkythea and therefore ignorant about many, most probably wonderful possibilities of this wonderful software.

I did some simple SU model to see how it will look like when rendered and I must say it looked great! I was literally impressed! Then, when I completed my "real" large size model with all the intricacies of the architecture I faced a great wall ](*,) that I could not break through even after reading all the tutorials and some of the forum topics. It would be nice to see a more organised and clear database of knowledge around this software including the web site. Everything looks so complicated! =P~ It has been already a few weeks since I tried to understand the functionality of this programme but I really found it difficult when it comes to certain rendering settings. More then that, with my larger model I started to get some weird error messages, that I do not know what to do with. It refuses to render my image! :cry:

I would really appreciate any support from any PRO using Kerkythea on a daily basis. I have to finish this project of mine in a short period of time and I need some serious guidance, pleeeeeeese.

I was so glad to see how easy the Google Sketch Up is. Its user friendly interface and functionality as a 3D programme. In almost an hour after first seeing it I was creating models I needed for my work and with a little practice I took it even further in no time.

Now, Kerkythea, on its hand, looks like a "Rocket Science" to me! With all its "cosmic" terminology. Please, do not take it personal! I understand that there are professional people standing behind this monumental project who most probably sweated blood to get this thing on and running. But please consider us - ignorant mortals, who are not so scientifically inclined and do not have that type of brain to digest the complexities behind it.

In a few words - It would be great to see it as simple and easy to understand as Sketch Up!

Mean while - if some one would stretch me the helping hend I would really, really appreciate it.

Kind regards, Visvambhara

Please e-mail me: syamartworld@gmail.com if you have anything encouraging for me!
<<

Visvambhara

Posts: 16

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Location: Durban, South Africa

Post Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:27 am

Re: Simplicity

After some intense search on this site I found the "disappointment" thread and started reading it. The first message of the person posted it is the same as what I feel. Then I followed reading and figured out that there are about 121 pages to go through with no guarantee that I will get the answer to my question. The model you are working with were other removed or cannot be downloaded as some of the post are from 2007. Those that are available do not match the complexity I require.
Following is the message I receive when rendering the model:

Error. Some errors appeared during rendering - please check console logging. The rendering may be incorrect in certain areas (black dots) or completely back due to initialisation error. It may also be that there is not enough resources to support the rendering technique used due to scene complexity. Please save your scene!

This are my computer parameters:

Xeon E5506 @ 2.13 Ghz, 2 processors that give me 8 threads, 8 Gb RAM, Nvidia GeForce 560 GTX with 1 Gb memory, Windows 7 Utimate, SketchUp 8 Pro, Kerkythea (latest).
To my opinion it is sufficient! Please correct me if I am wrong.

My SU model is 19.433 kb (19mb).
When converted to XML it is 482.749 kb.
The scene is a very complex architecture with the elements of South Indian temple architecture. Interior! I built it from scratch and paid serious attention to cleaning in SU. There are no textures or materials applied to the model yet as I wanted to see some intermediate rendering images and see how Kerky can handle it. It has its raw SU look at the moment. When exported to Kerky I wanted to render with the "outdoor" sun light coming through the windows. Applied Kerky Glass material to the windows: I1-Diamond-Dielec-Refl-1.00-refra-1.00-IX-1.33-fres. As the glass is grey tinted. Played around the settings of the sun and rendering pre-sets and this is what the Console Log shows me:

Opening file "H:\Pictures\Phoenix Temple\3D models\render\tpl_room.xml"
Finished in 93 seconds!
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Fresnel Conductor Texture
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Fresnel Conductor Texture
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Fresnel Conductor Texture
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Fresnel Conductor Texture
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Fresnel Conductor Texture
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Fresnel Conductor Texture
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Fresnel Conductor Texture
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Fresnel Conductor Texture
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Fresnel Conductor Texture
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Fresnel Conductor Texture
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Wine-Red-young (VL) (UN)
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Glass-Crown K7 (UN)
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Glass - Flint F5 (UN)
Warning: Can not set parameter N-K File of object Water NK (UN)
Warning: Can not set parameter Final Gathering of object Density Estimation
Warning: Can not set parameter Mesh Subdivision of object Density Estimation
Warning: Can not set parameter ./Final Gathering/Hardware Rendering of object Density Estimation
Warning: Can not set parameter ./Final Gathering/Final Gathering Rays of object Density Estimation
Warning: Can not set parameter ./Final Gathering/Crop Intensity (HR) of object Density Estimation
Warning: Can not set parameter ./Final Gathering/Accuracy of object Density Estimation
Warning: Overriding irradiance precomputation in multithreading mode.
Using 8 worker threads of Standard Ray Tracer - custom networking
Building Octree : |ooooooo|ooooooo|ooooooo|ooooooo|ooooooo| (12 seconds)
Octree Analysis (2024312 triangles, 1002768 nodes, 563346 leaves, 0 unmeshed objects, 0 instances, 170Mb memory)
Final Gathering: Using secondary irradiance estimator Density Estimation
Mesh Estimation : |ooooooo|ooooooo|ooooooo|ooooooo|ooooooo| (1 seconds)
Density Estimation: Using 0.281216m detail in mesh generation.
Photon Shooting : |ooooooo|ooooooo|ooooooo|ooooooo|ooooooo| (5 seconds)
Building Meshes : |Warning: Exception caught during init procedure (Building Meshes)
Final Gathering Statistics and Information
Max Gathering Depth : 1, Max Tracing Depth : 5
Gathering Rays : 400, Interpolation Accuracy : 0.25
Total Gatherings : 0, Total Interpolations : 0
Total Ray Tests : 911422, Intersections found : 763733
Finished in 1 minutes and 20 seconds!

Being truthful...I have no clue what this tells me and what I am doing wrong. Some genius out there...please help! ](*,)

I would like to get in touch with Frederick or Fletch as I see that they may provide me some serious feedback but have no idea where to find their contact details...
Live Skype session would be great!

Much appreciated!
<<

Fletch

KT-Team
KT-Team

Posts: 8564

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:38 am

Location: Milwaukee, WI USA

Post Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:01 am

Re: Simplicity

The following is NOT a commercial. :|
We realized the need to add simplicity for designers using SketchUp to harness the power of Kerkythea. This is why Twilight Render was developed. It is designed for SU users to have Kerkythea but in a simple, approachable way and never needing to leave SketchUp's interface.

From reading your error message below (I'm no good at reading them, by the way, as I'm not a programmer myself) it appears your computer is not properly finding the N-K files for the materials in your scene. Simple answer, perhaps you will not want to use the N-K metals for now. This answer avoids explaining anything technical, and solves your N-K problem. Search "N-K data" with an internet search engine or on this forum's search tool to learn more about N-K data.

My guess from your description is that you have either some large texture files in your model, or there's something odd in the model that is not allowing it to render properly.
In the past when this happened to me, or to others whom I have helped, there are 2 main things you can do. (there are many more things, but these 2 main things seem to work)
Find any texture file in your scene that is larger than 2000px wide and resize them to be 2000px or less and re-insert them into your SketchUp model. Next, purge your SketchUp model using purgeall.rb plugin (find it at SketchUcation forum for free) to get all the junk out of it that you have undoubtedly and unknowingly built up in the file as you worked. Since you are new to SU, you may not realize that it's a sketchy program not a perfect program.


Try rendering with unbiased such as MLT (render preset 20) and see if you can render. My guess is that you are rendering with PMFG Medium or something, and running out of RAM. MLT uses RAM differently, so it may render when PMFG fails. PMFG will work too, but you would need to learn how to deal with the advanced render settings. MLT will render relatively quickly on your nice render machine.

If the scene will still not render, I have, in the past, deleted half the scene, and tried to render, then deleted half of the remaining scene, tried to render, and so on until I could isolate the problem object in the scene. It could be that you have a texture that is not allowed, or some object has a glitch in it, could be a million reasons.


<<

Visvambhara

Posts: 16

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Location: Durban, South Africa

Post Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:42 am

Re: Simplicity

Ok, so far I was trying to play with a few options and can see that Kerky can handle my model in Photon Map Quick or Low pre-set with original SU faces and lights. But as soon as I try to get a higher resolution picture (independent of the pre-sets, anything higher then Photon Map Quick) I get the same error message. More then that after some time Kerky said it does not support XML file and could not open it.

I guess this is not the right place to post my notes, so please be patient with me and guide me in the right direction.
<<

Visvambhara

Posts: 16

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Location: Durban, South Africa

Post Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:02 am

Re: Simplicity

Thank you for the answer.
I have no textures, materials or light applied to this model yet. I will do this right in the end when I am happy with all the designs and settings in SU. So far I trying to see if I could render it in Kerky. Therefore I guess that the materials are not the issue here. I tried hiding a few components in SU and to find out which of them may cause the difficulty but it did not make too much of a difference. As soon as I tried to get a higher resolution picture then Photon Map Quick it would show me the same error.

I am trying to render in MLT now but it takes a lot of time compared to some other pre-sets. I am on 38 th minute now and as I can see the end is not so close. But at least it does something!
Another thing is that this is only a test render where I need to see if it will work or not and do some adjustments before the final and it is killing to wait for hours for a test.

I really like SU and do not think I will ever try anything else. Personally consider it to be a very powerful programme that is capable of many thing one cannot even imagine. No offence, please. This is my personal opinion.
In regards to other rendering programme I have already invested a significant amount of time into Kerky and would consider it a sin to stop at this point.

But thank you for your advice and I will definitely implement all that you have said.
<<

notareal

KT-Team
KT-Team

Posts: 4211

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:27 am

Location: Finland

Post Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:27 pm

Re: Simplicity

First of all, use Thin Glass material in windows, jump to advanced dielectric glass when you know how to use it.
Read trough Fast start guide http://www.kerkythea.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=63986 or http://www.sketchupartists.org/tutorial ... rchitects/

Rendering a huge model is a challenge for anyone. It's better to start from basics, earlier guides should cover that. But to your issue, as a method photon mapping might be limited for your use... to play save, you need to use unbiased rendering. Less settings to play and more accurate results. Use presets unbiased presets 19. 20. for interiors and 17. for exteriors (when only light comes from the Sun).

Unbiased metdots are progressive by they nature. You can stop rendering when ever you like, usually 80-160 passes is enough (over night).
Thea Render and Kerkythea Rendering System, by Solid Iris Technologies
<<

Visvambhara

Posts: 16

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Location: Durban, South Africa

Post Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:16 am

Re: Simplicity

Hi, everyone
I really appreciate the help that some of you providing.
I just want to clarify things from my side.
KT works perfectly on small and simple models. I tested it and it gives perfect results and I pretty much understand its functioning (there is no trouble with it). What is bothering me right now is how can I render a large and complex architectural model.

1. I need to do simple (super fast 5-10 min) rendering to test the light settings and see if I can do some adjustments.
2. When I am happy with the settings - do the final renderings of 15-20 images. (Same model but from different angles). Even here I would like to do it in 2-4 hours per image, if possible.

When I start using unbiased pre-sets 19. 20 or 17. it takes tremendous amount of time and according to my calculations it will take 29 DAYS!!!! to finish rendering. Now that, I cannot call a fast test render and not even the final render. One will get old by that time or starve to death being unable to deliver the project to the client.

Anyone there....who works with large and complex architectural models? Suggestions for KT render settings...

Any suggestions, please...
Attachments
tpl_2.jpg
tpl_1.jpg
SU model preview
test27.jpg
Quick view (clay rendering) with one light source
<<

massimo

KT-Wizard

Posts: 606

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:58 pm

Location: Italy

Post Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:30 am

Re: Simplicity

<<

Visvambhara

Posts: 16

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Location: Durban, South Africa

Post Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:36 am

Re: Simplicity

I am studying the Kerkythea GL (Global illumination) Pdf by Patrick Nieborg a.k.a. Patricks tutorial now and trying to digest what is done there. Quite technical and confusing some times but is a source of help to some degree. Again the model used as an example is a simple stuff, nothing complicated. I got perfect fast renderings on my simple renders in no time without even bothering about KT settings. All default, imported the scene, pressed the render button and ... kaboom :D . Worked perfect for me! But not on my large model.... :(
Attachments
test8.jpg
with default KT settings
test6.jpg
with default KT settings
<<

notareal

KT-Team
KT-Team

Posts: 4211

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:27 am

Location: Finland

Post Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:24 am

Re: Simplicity

Thea Render and Kerkythea Rendering System, by Solid Iris Technologies
<<

Visvambhara

Posts: 16

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Location: Durban, South Africa

Post Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:00 pm

Re: Simplicity

I have tried a few things over the past few days...heavy purge and clean up of the model with all possible plugins, still did not apply any textures, colours or lights. The file came down only on 1 mb - which is nothing. KT still shows me the same error message and periodically crashes.

Another "funny thing" is I tried using the Zorro 2 plugin to cut off some bigger parts of the model to try rendering by bits and pieces. What was surprising is that after 4/5 of the model was deleted the file was 14 mb which is only a 4 mb difference from the original size of the full model. Logically one would expect to see a drastic difference between the two but it did not.

KT still crashes!

I know, I know...this is not a commercial... but still with all the potency and settings behind,.... it looks strange.
<<

notareal

KT-Team
KT-Team

Posts: 4211

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:27 am

Location: Finland

Post Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:25 pm

Re: Simplicity

Without seeing your scene and used render settings, it's next to impossible know what might be wrong. The scene size does not sound particular challenging.
You could try to copy your scene to new SU file, sometimes it does fix issues.
Thea Render and Kerkythea Rendering System, by Solid Iris Technologies
<<

RedSquare

KT-GrandMaster

Posts: 1753

Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 4:39 pm

Location: Blackheath. London UK.

Post Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:32 am

Re: Simplicity

Silly question time.... So this large model. Exactly how large is large and I don't mean Mb. I mean in Meters or Feet & inches?


You mentioned that you are using the latest version of Kerkythea; but which version exactly are you using ?
Fanners \:D/
_______
<<

Fletch

KT-Team
KT-Team

Posts: 8564

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:38 am

Location: Milwaukee, WI USA

Post Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:22 pm

Re: Simplicity



<<

Visvambhara

Posts: 16

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Location: Durban, South Africa

Post Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:01 pm

Re: Simplicity

Please do not be offended in any way. I have no intentions to hurt anyone and I really appreciate all the effort that you put in all this and especially finding time to help me. It just what whatever I try does not work... I guess it is my lack of experience or just the stars are not in position.

My SU model has significant amount of layers and scenes and I will definitely try to render each and every layer to find out whats wrong.

Could you please explain the following: If you are using Zorro2 to slice up your model, you clearly lack a great deal of understanding how SketchUp works, and how it works in conjunction with Kerkythea.

I did my follow up on the net and it came up a less painful and less time consuming solution to use Zorro 2 plugin then cutting each and every individual component and messing up my model. I have hundreds of them (components) with almost all of them on their respectful layer.

Another interesting thing that I would like to know is the file size: SU model is 18Mb, ... when transported to KT via KT exporter for SU it grows to 1.3 Gb in size. Is this normal? :-k Is there any other way to export my SU model to KT?
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