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Kerkythea Rendering System • View topic - Color/saturation/lightness control of material bitmaps
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Color/saturation/lightness control of material bitmaps

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kwistenbiebel

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Posts: 403

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Location: Belgium

Post Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:12 am

Color/saturation/lightness control of material bitmaps

Hi all,

It is easy to change the tonality of a material when it has just a base colour assigned.

However when using a bitmap texture in the material slot (diffuse) there is no abilty to control the saturation/lightness/colour of the texture.
It would be great if we could do that just like Sketchup can.

The diffuse part of the material in KT consists of:

color+bitmap+procedural

Let's say I assign a leather bitmap in KT but I want to make it lighter and less saturated I would like to add that light brown colour in the 'color' slot but that results in overbright (total RGB value exceeds 0.85) output.
Instead of 'mixing' the colour with the bitmap it 'adds up' the RGB values.

If there would be some kind of control of the texture colour we could avoid oversaturated output that is often seen in KT renderings.

I know that I could change the saturation of the texture in Photoshop, but many rendering software supports that within the material editor.


By the way,
How comes that the same bitmap texture renders more saturated in KT
than in some other render soft (maxwell, vray...)?
Somehow the rendered output of a material texture doesn't match the colour of the original bitmap.

Could someone shine a light on this?

Thanks,
Kwistenbiebel
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kwistenbiebel

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Post Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:33 am

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Exsecratus

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Post Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:46 am

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kwistenbiebel

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Location: Belgium

Post Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:05 am

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Fletch

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Location: Milwaukee, WI USA

Post Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:54 am

MLT will give you much better color reproduction than PM&FG presets.

It's using less guess and more actual calculation.

I know you've seen this post, but for others reading this who may have missed it: Color Theory link from Patrick-
http://www.kerkythea.net/phpBB2/viewtop ... =saturated

I too have wished for this functionality you are mentioning Kwisten,
but I typically use a mix of a color and my bitmap, and tone down the power of the bitmap in proportion to the power of the solid color I'm 'adding' to it.

for instance, to turn my leather more orange, I find the overall orange I want, then USE THE SLIDER DIAL to turn that orange quite a bit darker, lets say it came in around ".5", I would dial it down to .25, if you type in ".25" it will turn it to grey, so you have to use the dial for this. Then, since my orange is now at .25, I set my bitmap, which was at SU's default of .85, and dial it down to .65 or something. That usually get's me pretty close. I hide everything in the render and just render the object as I 'tweak' the color.


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clipi

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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:36 pm

Post Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:09 am

blending modes were considered many times! specially for layered materials.. but as you know many features takes time to get implemented.... I will birng up the issue again..
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kwistenbiebel

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Post Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:20 am

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patricks

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Post Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:14 pm

Hi kwistenbiebel

There is no problem with KT and bitmap texture output . What can happen is that if you change the gamma 2.2 to somthing different , that your image will get more contrasted and maybe a bit more saturated ( especially if you change gamma once the render has started ) or that your colors get washed out and loos contrast ....... I have made many test renders ( when KT 2007 was still a internal beta ) and we had in mind to make KT output the correct and exact colors . If you compare your bitmap textures with the final output , you can see that the colors are the same ( please make a test render with the Material scene and dont make any changes to the exposure and gamma settings , just hit render :wink: ) .
Now there is another issue but it has to do with the bitmaps you can find at the Internet or in Texture collections ........ alot of them are gamma corrected ( 0.454545) to work with render engines that dont have linear lightflow build in .....but KT dos this automatically ... so there is no need to use bitmaps that are gamma corrected :wink: ( there are many sky maps that are revers gamma corrected ....watch out ... but dont worry we had this in mind and you can turn off linear lightflow ( revers gamma correction ) in the global settings for the sky ( Advanced settings) and there are also some special gamma settings for the sky for fine tuning ).

I also think that having the ability to make some correction to bitmaps in KT would be a good feature but for me this is "luxury" because we can do this in Gimp or Photoshop before we import them to KT and right now there are other features muche more important then this one ( more important because there is no alternative way to do them )

Greetings Patrick
<<

kwistenbiebel

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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:35 am

Location: Belgium

Post Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:53 pm

Thank you Patrick for that clear explanation about textures from the web.


I sometimes use Arroway textures .
Does someone know if they are gamma corrected?
Should I disable the gamma reverse correction?

What photoeditor would you guys suggest using to gamma correct a whole texture collection in batch process?

Thanks again Patricks, I should have known this wasn't a KT issue. :D
<<

patricks

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Post Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:02 pm

I dont know if Arroway textures are gamma corrected or not ( i think they are not gamma corrected) ..... but a simple way is to look at your texture in Gimp or Photoshop and think if the texture is showing the correct color ..... "is this wood texture realy looking like the real wood texture ...... this brick texture got natural looking colors ? .... this sky map got natural looking colors or do it look a bit too saturated ?...etc.)

i strongly recommend to leave gamma = 2.2 and use the default settings in the render image window ( you can play later with the exposure and gamma once the render is finished if your using PM & FG ....with MLT you can do that while rendering :wink: )


Greetings Patrick

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