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Kerkythea Rendering System • View topic - Photorealism Problem!!!!
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Photorealism Problem!!!!

Moderator: ModeratorGroup

<<

keithkong

KT-Warrior

Posts: 120

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:46 pm

Location: Dublin, Ireland

Post Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:52 pm

Photorealism Problem!!!!

Ok i've been using KT for a few months now and sketchup for alot longer but i'm losing nixers due to "lack of photorealism" as my former boss informs me. Ireland is in a serious recession, 41% of Architects/technicians unemployed!!!

Generally i try to avoid SU material i prefer to apply my own jpegs & KT materials but as i said, my renders are not looking "real enough", and i have the "beginners manual" and i've read it and refer it all the time.

Have a look and tell me what you think, the people were applied in photoshop.
Attachments
Courtyard Sample Persective D.jpg
Combination of SU, KT &amp; CS3
<<

Fletch

KT-Team
KT-Team

Posts: 8564

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:38 am

Location: Milwaukee, WI USA

Post Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:52 am

point 1:
people are VERY. let me repeat VERY difficult to do well.

this is why if you visit Vizdepot's gallery, or CGArchitect you will note quickly the serious LACK OF PEOPLE in the best renderings. Why? see Point1.

Best to avoid them if possible if you aren't good at them. Best to use Got3D real 3D people in KT if you want OK people... they actually get the same light of the scene. and don't really add tons of render time.

I use the RPC plugin for Photoshop from Archvision... but still have to do some serious pshop to get them looking good.

point 2:
why is it so blurry? seems like you are using a low-ish render setting. please try MLT for this scene. It will render slow on a machine with only 1 processor. If you need to invest a grand or two in a good machine to render quickly in KT, it's worth it because well, by not using the other major players on the render scene you are saving about $8000 in software costs... so you can spring for a core i7 (renders on 8 threads)... for probably less than $2000.

point 3:
no need to buy a new machine, really, but getting great renderings takes time, and the machine can save some, because we architects are always in a hurry. KT is not like a simple raytracer render engine... so while it's a very speedy engine, it must not be compared to simple raytracing.
since you didn't mention speed, I'll leave it at that.

point 4:
it looks like you are rendering this with PMQuick... you must use at min. PMMed+AA for a presentation. If you will visit tips and tricks section you may find some render settings I've tried to optimize for render times... but they are really something that is a scene-by-scene thing. I, too, wish there were just a simple render setting that works perfect in all situations but was also fast... so I got a very fast machine, and render with MLT :D

The PM+FG in KT can compete strongly with any engine out there, but you must use higher settings if you want it to look realistic.

Be sure you study the material guide and avoid being creative w/ your materials until you are sure what you are doing.

Majid just posted his user guide for architects in a hurry... you may find it on this forum.


<<

Pg09

KT-Explorer

Posts: 227

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:05 pm

Location: Port of Spain

Post Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:27 pm

cheers,

Adam
<<

steve6

KT-Master

Posts: 523

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:49 pm

Post Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:40 pm

One of the problems with people added in Photoshop (at least in close-up, anyway) is that they look pasted on (not integrated into the scene). I've heard architects complain about this. You can buy high-resolution billboard people (to position in Sketchup) which will help to alleviate this problem. This will also allow you to cast correct shadows (which you don't have here).

Fletch--

I'm curious--why do you recommend MLT or PM+FG for this scene, instead of PTP, since it's an outdoor scene? I have not as yet tried PM+FG for exteriors--what's a good number of passes to shoot for for realism?
<<

Ecuadorian

KT-Warrior

Posts: 119

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:26 pm

Location: Guayaquil, Ecuador

Post Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:58 am

<<

Johne

KT-Senior

Posts: 54

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:14 pm

Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:08 am

Attachments
Untitled-1.jpg
<<

Fletch

KT-Team
KT-Team

Posts: 8564

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:38 am

Location: Milwaukee, WI USA

Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:53 am



<<

keithkong

KT-Warrior

Posts: 120

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:46 pm

Location: Dublin, Ireland

Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:38 pm

<<

bugmcw

Posts: 23

Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:38 am

Post Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:04 am

<<

Gareth

KT-Warrior

Posts: 114

Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:34 am

Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Post Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:00 am

in addition to Fletch's comments, the best architectural photos are generally taken without people in the scene, and often when people are included, they are blurred....

.....i think the blurred image of humans adds a motion effect, subtley retains the sense of scale and reduces their impact on the photgraph because they dont dominate the scene, which after all, is all about the architecture
*some people have too much spare time on their hands*
<<

rossgalloway

KT-Explorer

Posts: 430

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:28 am

Post Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:35 am

A ton of good points in this thread (almost worth sticky-ing and maybe moving to the "tips and tricks" section). I will add my 2 cents:

First of all, to make your people look 100 percent more believable, they should all be in correct perspective. To do this, in photoshop, turn on your rulers and then drag a horizontal guide (click and drag from the ruler) to where you think about 5'6" is in your scene (average eye height). From here position all your entourage people with their eyes close to this guide, adjusting for some people to be a little taller or shorter than others. Then scale the people so they are the correct distance from you (the size of the person relates to how far they are from you since their height is set.)

After you do that, adding reflections of the people on the ground (if the floor is reflective) adds a lot to integrating them. Simply copy the layer of the person (each person or group of people should be a separate layer) and flip them vertically(edit - transform- flip vertical). From here you can lower the opacity or them and/or apply some blur to make the floor look less perfectly reflective. One final step, but this is relatively advanced, would be to create a layer mask and fade the reflection out using a gradient. I would ignore this last step if you just started with photoshop, but if you get a chance, look into layer masks as they are one of the most useful features of photoshop.

You may also want to consider making your people more diagramatic. Getting people to look right is hard but we often need to show people for scale reference. I am a big fan of slightly transparent silhouettes. Many of the best rendering companies use silhouetted people and they don't detract from the "photorealism" (more on this below).

Silhouetting people is very easy to do. Just set up your entourage as i mentioned above and then select the layer of the person you want to be a silhouette. go to "image - adjustments - levels" and play with the bottom slider, moving it all the way to one side or the other to make the layer all black or all white. Then you can adjust the tansparency of the layer as needed and the silhouette should be easy to select if you want to fill it with a different color.



To take your image to the "next level" requires more work, tinkering, practice, and some skill.

Your ex-boss may have mentioned that your renderings aren't photorealistic enough, but that is really only part of the issue. Photorealism is a nice goal but is very rarely acheived. Most of the time, good renderings are not photorealistic, but they are artistic. The best images are evocative and appeal to "the feeling you get" when you see them. You can have a photorealistic image that is just plain boring, just as you can have a boring photograph. Your image looks like it could be a shopping street or a courtyard, but either way it needs to portray that vibrancy that is going to sell it. if its a shopping street, maybe you could add a sunset sky (see high-res sky globals), turn off the sun and show the interior spaces glowing and illuminating the street. This would just be a start though. You would need to model the inside of the stores, model the building in more detail, add details to the street, etc.

Other people's comments about details are spot on, and this applies to modeling, texturing, and rendering. Knowing what is the best method to achieve the result you want is also important. Sometimes you can spend an hour modeling something that you could achieve in 5 minutes if you textured it correctly or added it in post production. You really can't know this though until you try it though. There is no replacement for experience.

check out Zsitro's pdf to see the amount of detail in modeling and texturing, and post pro goes into a photorealistic and artistic render.

If you managed to get through my essay, I want to wish you good luck.
<<

iwanwidjaja

KT-Warrior

Posts: 146

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:14 pm

Location: Indonesia

Post Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:34 pm

Some video resource about matte painting by ,might handy if you have spare time to experiment with post-processing program such as Photoshop or GIMP.

http://vimeo.com/7232171
http://vimeo.com/7197565

Enjoy the video ;)

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